Wednesday, June 30, 2010

Predicting Which Husband will Murder his Wife

The rate of the domestic murder of women is still high. Of all murders committed against women, 30% of them are committed by spouse, boyfriend, former spouse or former boyfriend. What can we do to stop the killing of women by those who claimed to love them? Intervening to stop physical violence through jail time, fines, and other consequences from society has brought a decrease in domestic murders, but they are still too high. And one in four women are assaulted by their male partners at some point in their lifetime--often over a long period of time.

Those who work to combat domestic violence have stepped back and asked themselves what is the best predictor of a man murdering the female in his life? They would like to say that it is physical abuse, since so many who murder their wives committed increasingly more destructive physical violence against the women in their lives before they murdered them. Yet, in too many cases there was no known physical abuse. Husbands who seemed to be regular guys with no history of abuse seem to “out of the blue” rise up and kill their wives or ex-wives.

I think of the Sueppel family in Iowa, who had adopted foreign children. Neighbors gathered at the Sueppel house frequently and sat out on the lawn/driveway, chatting. Children came over to play. And then the news came out that Mr. Sueppel was about to be charged for embezzling funds from the bank where he was employed. Before he was formally charged, Mr. Sueppel killed his wife and children and then himself, shocking the whole community. The media reported that about 10 years prior Mrs. Sueppel had called the domestic violence shelter because of an incident at her home. This information was dismissed. They claimed Mr. Sueppel was a loving man who just “snapped” and did the unthinkable. How could this “loving man” hit his 5 year old daughter, who was in the play room, over the head with a bat and then continue to beat her upper torso until she died? How could he one by one kill off 3-4 children, and shoot the wife he loved so much? He didn’t find it so easy to kill himself. It took driving at super high speed and crashing into an abutment to do himself in. Yet the media denies that this man was an abuser.

However, the domestic violence workers say the best predictor of domestic murder is verbal/emotional abuse. What causes a person to use verbal/emotional abuse against the very person they claim to love? It is an attitude and belief of entitlement. The belief that he is entitled to have his way, to have what he wants. Verbal and emotional abuse are caused by the belief that he is entitled to cast the deciding vote, to have authority that his spouse does not have. It is a belief in his own superiority, that the rules don’t apply to him.

The attitude of entitlement, the belief that he has the right to have his way stands out in the Sueppel story. Even if Sueppel never hit his wife again after she called for help 10 years prior to her murder, it is doubtful that he stopped controlling her through verbal and emotional abuse. It is probable he also used a quiverful of other controlling techniques, which he selected much like one selects an arrow to slice through a targeted prey. His belief in his right to have what he wanted spilled over into his work and he stole from his boss. Actually, he stole from the people who trusted him enough to deposit their money in his bank.

Holding the Sueppel story up next to John Piper’s answer to how a wife should submit to her abusive husband by enduring his “verbal unkindness for a season,” shows Piper’s denial of the life-threatening danger that he advocated for verbally and emotionally abused wives. And his answer showed that he was refusing to deal with the husband’s sin until the husband had sinned “for a season” and to the point that the sin had escalated into something Piper considered life-threatening.

The Sueppel story is one of many. There is the Haitian husband who had physically assaulted his wife, and then persuaded her to drop the restraining order against him. The husband and wife had been going to their pastor for counseling to help them forgive and reconcile, and then the husband murdered his wife and children. There is the man—Lutheran, I believe—who shot his ex-wife during a counseling session at church. Nothing was said of previous domestic violence, yet he shot his wife repeatedly, killing her.

These are not isolated incidents of abuse. They are the culmination of years of abuse; the abuse that doesn’t leave bruises on the outside, but that turns wives black and blue on the inside.

It is time people of faith stop limiting the definition of domestic violence to “regular beatings” and take all the tactics of domestic abusers seriously. Domestic abuse—even verbal abuse, limiting access to family resources, marital rape, and twisting scripture to insist that a wife obey her husband—is life-threatening. It shows a disrespect for the life and person of another, which is the seed and poisonous plant that blooms into domestic murder.


Waneta Dawn is the author of "Behind the Hedge," a novel about a wife who discovers traditional marriage advice doesn't always work. See www.wanetadawn.com

22 comments:

  1. When pastors say things like 'for a season' HOW are families to take that? Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter? Month? Year? Does it have to happen everyday? What happens if he is good for a week? Does the time table start over? What pastors don't answer if how much is too much!

    The bible states the stand God takes regarding people with contempt in their heart, and wicked words and attitudes from their tongues and hearts.

    Pastors claim that women (in this case) don't take the marriage 'serious' enough, and the 'vows' as they should. The world doesn't respect the word of God, and they ramble on and on about that.

    What is strange? They don't take the person that is full of contempt, rage, and is out to hurt their families as God does according to his word (bible). Why do they claim they are 'so serious' about it, and yet their actions show the opposite? God is CLEAR about that also!

    They don't see the hypocritical nature of that? Isn't that calling the kettle black? The bible is VERY clear about 'vows' and 'contempt'! I guess they don't take the word of God to serious. Sad really ... I pray for them everyday I will admit!

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  2. Verbal and emotional abuse thrive when a person systematically devalues the other in his/her thoughts.

    That is why it is so horrible that complementarians teach outright that women have less value than men! They teach that women should be subordinate because they are weaker, more easily deceived and, according to the worst teachings, mere derivatives of men- an afterthought of God, since man could use a lackey and a sex partner.

    This devaluing of the person is the first step in all kinds of abuse. It is why "christians" had no problem enslaving African-Americans. It is why some Muslim countries have no problem with slavery today. It undergirds all domestic violence.

    It is a horror and a shame that the religion which bears the name of Jesus Christ should again and again indulge in this wickedness.

    So sad.

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  3. Hannah,
    I take Piper's "for a season" to mean until the abuser hits his wife. That means the husband could continually demean his wife for 20 years, he could even do other types physical violence, like rape, choke her, burn her with a cigarette, deny her sleep, kick her, but as long as it isn't hitting, she must continue to endure it.

    "Pastors claim that women (in this case) don't take the marriage 'serious' enough, and the 'vows' as they should. The world doesn't respect the word of God, and they ramble on and on about that.
    What is strange? They don't take the person that is full of contempt, rage, and is out to hurt their families as God does according to his word (bible). Why do they claim they are 'so serious' about it, and yet their actions show the opposite? God is CLEAR about that also!"

    Great observation! They claim to be so serious about protecting marriage, yet protect the very people who are destroying marriage, and blame the destruction on his victim. It makes no sense, except that they want to retain entitlement rights for themselves and for all males. It is the "good-old-boys" club.

    If they paid more attention to the contempt, rage, and the abuser's malice toward his wife, and dealt with those as the sin they are, they could actually make headways in preserving marriages.

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  4. "That is why it is so horrible that complementarians teach outright that women have less value than men! They teach that women should be subordinate because they are weaker, more easily deceived and, according to the worst teachings, mere derivatives of men- an afterthought of God, since man could use a lackey and a sex partner."

    Shadowspring,
    what is so odd is that they say all this devaluing stuff, and then deny that they are devaluing women. They claim it is the wife's ROLE, and therefore it is GOD who is saying it, not them. And God can never be wrong, so all those devaluing things they say about women have God's stamp of approval.

    When you challenge them on it, they steadfastly parrot their interpretation of scripture and claim it IS scripture. Any discussion just goes round and round, because they refuse to admit their interpretation is not scripture.

    This has been bothering me more and more. Assuming they are Christians, the Holy Spirit should be nudging them to pay attention to actual scripture instead of to man's interpretaion. I do not believe it is my job to push and push. I think that is the work of the Holy Spirit. It seems so many are hardening their hearts so they cannot hear the nudging of the Holy Spirit any more than they hear me or you.

    I do present the word, and leave it up to the Spirit to convict. I will discuss it, but when someone is insistent I will bow out of the discussion because I am incapable of doing the work of the Holy Spirit.

    Meanwhile, I am sad that so many harden their hearts against God and against their wives.

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  5. Waneta, Thanks so much for your ministry here. I have been reading through your blog and will bookmark it.

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  6. "I do present the word, and leave it up to the Spirit to convict. I will discuss it, but when someone is insistent I will bow out of the discussion because I am incapable of doing the work of the Holy Spirit. "

    This is so wise! And something that I must learn. I have been trying to only focus on those who seem to be open because so many are so convinced their interpretation is right they cannot see the overarching principle of why it cannot be right in God's economy.

    One reason so many hearts have been hardened is that this issue has been elevated to a salvic doctrine. If one thinks about it, they are prescribing a pink and blue Christianity.

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  7. Gee you answered the Question of all questions Shadowspring, too bad not enough really pay attention to it,

    "This has been bothering me more and more. Assuming they are Christians, the Holy Spirit should be nudging them to pay attention to actual scripture instead of to man's interpretaion"

    yea like duh, these men are in no way Christian, having a Form of Godliness but denying the Power thereof...from such, STAY AWAY FROM,

    this is Why I left, mensianity.

    the son of perdition sitting in the temple,

    these doctrines are NOT from God folks--they are from Satan.

    so Debating them--pointless

    videos of debate and retreat church camp with comps $199.99
    therapy session needed to bring you back to functional state afterward $90.00
    freedom from toxins after leaving the idiots--

    PRICELESS

    Love,

    Jane

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  8. Lin,
    It's great to see you on my blog! And thanks for the encouragement. Your blog looks interesting, but it is late already, so I'll save actual reading for another day.

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  9. Real cute priceless ad, Jane!
    And I like that word you coined, "Mensianty." That is so on target! May I use it?

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  10. How long was Pauline Nash's "season?" She had her husband arrested on his first (according to her police report)instance of domestic violence. He was released from jail after 48 hours because he was not deemed a threat (due to it being a first offense). He went home and proceded to stab Pauline to death in front of their daughters.

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  11. Yes, Jane, well put and witty too. It's a gift to find something to laugh about in this heresy that is sweeping the evangelical world.

    I have now been to two weddings recently in which the bride figuratively grovelled at her grooms feet, pledging repeatedly to submit, follow you lead, have no desires of my own but to live only for yours, submit, submit, submit, submit. One of the brides used the word love in her vows ONCE, the other NOT AT ALL!

    These poor deluded nieces of mine have damned their marriages from the outset.

    Only the grace of God can save them from themselves. They are so very, very foolish to think themselves more righteous and enlightened than the generations who came before, and in their pride and their determination to build a good marriage based on their commitment to live as slaves (i.e. works of the flesh) they claim death for their relationship. All works of the flesh end in death.

    So sad.

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  12. Shadowspring,

    "I have now been to two weddings recently in which the bride figuratively grovelled at her grooms feet, pledging repeatedly to submit, follow you lead, have no desires of my own but to live only for yours, submit, submit, submit, submit. One of the brides used the word love in her vows ONCE, the other NOT AT ALL!"

    this is the result of the BDSM culture we live in, from porn. BDSM is something sadly I know well and still struggle with, even carried over into my relationship with Jesus...because there ARE some characteristics of BDSM in the Crucifixion, love will ultimately bleed for the one loved,

    that is where the obsession towards submission comes from In women. The Difference however, is that with Jesus, it's a Two way BDSM, with men, it's only a ONE way, so it's not a blood relationship bond, only a master destroying slave bond. It's not a marriage and never can be. It's dominance/no soul, rape/bondage. There is no equal exchange...this is why,

    with Jesus, it's bride in white and bridegroom in white

    human Patriarchal marriage, it's bride in white, bridegroom in black

    the color of

    death.

    my favorite BDSM song for Jesus, the Only one, I'll submit and bleed for, lol [yea, lol, from the emo-dark goth Christian here, lol--on a more serious note, see the continued reply]

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpRiSb_Ir-s

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  13. con't from above reply

    OK on a more serious note, from my working/walking through my dark-emo bdsm relationship with Jesus, it was actually the revelation of the bdsm in the crucifixion that opened my eyes to the depths of God's love for me,
    BUT

    it was also, Him telling me, that is what it took to Reach me, to reach us because of SIN. See it's positive but negative, the Difference too, is that the bdsm in the crucifixion/suffering in Christ is that it BIRTHS LIFE, where human bdsm doesn't birth life [though sexual taking back through bdsm will Claim that it does, in reality it doesn't, it's really only a more self crucifixion/rape to being dominated which leads to more inner death, it's a lie--this is why those sexually abused are so vulnerable to this, either by acting out or being acted out upon or exploited by the sex industry or clever predators].

    And the culture of BDSM which comes from hedonist pagan temples BTW, sacrificing to demons, to to speak or to fallen angels, or vampires, today it's the cult of vampires, sacrifice oneself to the sexual abuse of vampire get eternal life but depending on drinking the blood of others, etc., this is where the demonic, do the whole Counterfeit thing] and it's bombarded in the whole submit-dominance roles in marriage today in Mensianity. Jesus died to FREE us from the bondage, not to Keep us in bondage,

    though we may in return offer up ourselves as LIVING SACRIFICES, who may yes, suffer and die, but it's a huge difference between That, and the bdsm DYING SACRIFICE, that does not produce fruit NOR does it produce LIFE, not ours or any one elses. See this is the deceptive work of Satan,

    with the whole death cult club in mensianity for women, I know, I have eaten and tasted it and struggle with it, it is from the years of abuse/rape/whoredom [I am writing a series on this BTW, Letters from a Whore/Concubine] and it is Very hard to be delivered from and to SEE, the difference, between the two. Hard to explain in short here but I will be writing on this, in depth, in the series,

    you may copy it and send to whomever it may help. I am taking back the bdsm that for Years I offered myself to the dark forces [men, power, authority] and giving it all to Jesus, it was through this, that He began to show me just how deeply ingrained the demonic works, why women ARE so vulnerable to this. Love is vulnerable, but we are to Also be, giving as well as Sober, and Power, God gives us the Spirit of Love, POWER and a SOUND MIND,

    women, we get the love/oh God we'll die for you [because Jesus loves us the way no man can--those young women will one day soon find that out, with those bridegrooms wearing 'black'] but then, if we are not careful, we lose sight that Jesus also said, be Power and Sound Mind. There is a lot of discernment needed in this area,

    because it's the lie of the counterfeit, that I am noticing, in today's mensianity, that really, is identical, to the sacrificial virgin, in Baphomet cults/Satanic rituals. More on this later, [this is why, I say, the son of perdition, is in the temple, that leads to desolation, bdsm leads to that, why God condemned it, sin--Paul said, abusing themselves with mankind, Perilous times, that's what that is]

    Love,

    Jane

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  14. cont...ok this goes with the top two posts, it's also due to us being in an over sexualized culture, and the other extreme of the anti-love/anti-sacrifice culture [the extremes in anti-marriage/love, etc]. I've walking in both extremes so I know a bit about both--still processing a lot of this though,

    the revelation of the bdsm too came from His dealing with me over a unhealthy two year relationship I had with a man who I was madly in love with, when I left my second husband who married me for a green card/there was no sexual or any kind of relationship--other than his occasional need for release and a maid--I was young and had history of whoredom [from childhood/abuse] and so this man, whom yes in odd ways though I was not living for Christ per se, God used to set me free from some things, on the other hand, it was demonic--anyhow, it was that Nine and a Half Weeks kind of relationship and this man really was my 'god', this man later would try to kill me [and almost succeeded] and raped me one night, a month before he got arrested and sent Back to prison, the ONLY REASON I AM ALIVE TODAY, BTW. Anyhow, God showed me a lot about myself, submission, toxic death and how the enemy will lure us, through all those, especially sexual/affection/need, that Lie that sex is Love, it is not, Sex is Pleasure, not Love--huge difference, I'll get into that on the series AND why it has confused so many women AND men into thinking eros is love, when it's not. It's a part of Love,

    it can also be a part of Hate. It's that inner core pull towards the self hate/suicide, hard to put into words but it's surrender but the question is,

    WHO ARE WE REALLY SURRENDERING OURSELVES TO?

    And THAT, that is where there is such a huge need for discernment, because one can Think they are surrendering to Jesus, when really, they are surrendering to the demonic--that is why, I think, it says in Bible, to submit AS unto the LORD, we live in Satan's domain...all under God, but if we don't really clarify that in our submission, so to speak, we leave ourselves wide open, to the demonic--Paul says we are not ignorant of his devices but truth is, in This day and age, we ARE, in their day, they knew, KNEW because the worship of fallen angels [gods] were all around them, they were more in Tune with that realm. We in our materialist age are not--we are also starved for the spiritual, which is Why we are vulnerable, starved to Love as well as be Loved, why we are vulnerable,

    and it really boils down to, what IS love? Eros, is not Love, it's only one aspect of...when it's distorted, which it is, in white/black, it entraps, it's a Snare. It then becomes, surrender to 'gods' [to be as gods the serpent said] rather than TO GOD, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of GOD, God is LOVE,

    eros is pleasure, LOVE loves and rains on it's enemies, eros does not. Love dies for it's enemies, eros does not. In the end days Jesus said, they will marry and be given in marriage, TWICE he says this, as in the days of Noah...people will EROS love, but Loving GOD, no, love will grow cold due to iniquity.

    It's really deceptive, anyway, follow my series, because I will write a lot more in depth on this issue, I think, it will shed some light, I hope.

    Jane

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  15. cont...ok this goes with the top two posts, it's also due to us being in an over sexualized culture, and the other extreme of the anti-love/anti-sacrifice culture [the extremes in anti-marriage/love, etc]. I've walking in both extremes so I know a bit about both--still processing a lot of this though,

    the revelation of the bdsm too came from His dealing with me over a unhealthy two year relationship I had with a man who I was madly in love with, when I left my second husband who married me for a green card/there was no sexual or any kind of relationship--other than his occasional need for release and a maid--I was young and had history of whoredom [from childhood/abuse] and so this man, whom yes in odd ways though I was not living for Christ per se, God used to set me free from some things, on the other hand, it was demonic--anyhow, it was that Nine and a Half Weeks kind of relationship and this man really was my 'god', this man later would try to kill me [and almost succeeded] and raped me one night, a month before he got arrested and sent Back to prison, the ONLY REASON I AM ALIVE TODAY, BTW. Anyhow, God showed me a lot about myself, submission, toxic death and how the enemy will lure us, through all those, especially sexual/affection/need, that Lie that sex is Love, it is not, Sex is Pleasure, not Love--huge difference, I'll get into that on the series AND why it has confused so many women AND men into thinking eros is love, when it's not. It's a part of Love,

    it can also be a part of Hate. It's that inner core pull towards the self hate/suicide, hard to put into words but it's surrender but the question is,

    WHO ARE WE REALLY SURRENDERING OURSELVES TO?

    And THAT, that is where there is such a huge need for discernment, because one can Think they are surrendering to Jesus, when really, they are surrendering to the demonic--that is why, I think, it says in Bible, to submit AS unto the LORD, we live in Satan's domain...all under God, but if we don't really clarify that in our submission, so to speak, we leave ourselves wide open, to the demonic--Paul says we are not ignorant of his devices but truth is, in This day and age, we ARE, in their day, they knew, KNEW because the worship of fallen angels [gods] were all around them, they were more in Tune with that realm. We in our materialist age are not--we are also starved for the spiritual, which is Why we are vulnerable, starved to Love as well as be Loved, why we are vulnerable,

    and it really boils down to, what IS love? Eros, is not Love, it's only one aspect of...when it's distorted, which it is, in white/black, it entraps, it's a Snare. It then becomes, surrender to 'gods' [to be as gods the serpent said] rather than TO GOD, lovers of pleasure more than lovers of GOD, God is LOVE,

    eros is pleasure, LOVE loves and rains on it's enemies, eros does not. Love dies for it's enemies, eros does not. In the end days Jesus said, they will marry and be given in marriage, TWICE he says this, as in the days of Noah...people will EROS love, but Loving GOD, no, love will grow cold due to iniquity.

    It's really deceptive, anyway, follow my series, because I will write a lot more in depth on this issue, I think, it will shed some light, I hope.

    Jane

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  16. "However, the domestic violence workers say the best predictor of domestic murder is verbal/emotional abuse."


    "Holding the Sueppel story up next to John Piper’s answer to how a wife should submit to her abusive husband by enduring his “verbal unkindness for a season,” shows Piper’s denial of the life-threatening danger that he advocated for verbally and emotionally abused wives."

    I'm with you 100% on this. It's so true what the domestic violence workers say. I BEEN there, I know!

    Thanks for getting the information out. I've been naive to think that the majority already understood this fact. Shame on me! What is wrong with religious people? It's like they are uneducated or ignorant. It's weird...

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  17. Welcome Anonymous!
    Please, please, you likely have heard enough shame messages, do not add another one on account of anything I have written! I do appreciate your support, though. :-)

    Yes, I am flabbergasted by the refusal of so many in the so-called Christian community to admit that verbal & emotional domestic violence are serious sin that leads to death. They claim non-physical abuse should not be labeled abuse at all, that people label it abuse so they have an excuse to divorce. (which they think is wrong) This is totally opposite of the truth. Wives who are emotionally/verbally/spiritually abused do everything they can think of to save their marriages and get their husbands to stop sinning against them. Usually they have endured much damage already by the time they go to their pastors for help, and then the pastors behave as if there has only been 1-2 incidents and that the abuser should have the benefit of the pastor's doubt, thus putting the wife in serious, life-threatening danger.

    The "Christian" community also refuses to see the connection between their male authority doctrine and both physical and non-physical domestic violence.

    As Jocelyn Andersen pointed out in her newly released book, "Woman this is War," even the slaves of kind masters were still slaves. They still did not have freedom. In the same way, even the wives of kind authority-over, complementarian husbands, do not have complete freedom. At any time their "kind" husbands can over-ride the wife's will, therefore the wife's "freedom" is an illusion.

    "What is wrong with religious people? It's like they are uneducated or ignorant. It's weird..."

    I recently spoke with a man who battles domestic violence. He said the pastors DO know the damage that domestic abuse/violence do, and they want it that way so they can retain power. The pastors/leaders are NOT ignorant of what they are doing.

    However, (my own addition to the man's statement) due to the smoke-screens these pastors put up, many of the lay people may well be ignorant about the cause and effect of domestic violence.

    It is my belief that many pastors and church leaders purposely block the message of freedom from male oppression that I and others put forth, yet if that info gets to some of those in the pews, it may be passed to oppressed women within those congregations. Unless the pastors are already standing against male authority and domination, it is best to go directly to church goers who are not church leaders. It seems those in the pews have to pressure those in the pulpit.

    God bless!
    ~Waneta Dawn

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  18. Waneta, I have just found your site. I am so encouraged by finding Christian survivors out there - their testimonies and messages are so invalidating - I thought I was the only one going through and fighting such things, having just separated from a 20+ year marriage of domestic violence. It took secular professionals to help me see what was going on. Even now, when secular groups are refusing to do mediation with us, not even in separate rooms, because of concerns for my safety (emotional, mainly), Christians are still trying to get us to sit together over coffee!

    What I am concerned about is trying to get this message to the many desperate women who haven't even identified their problem - they think they are in a difficult marriage. And they go on sites to find answers, and sometimes the articles or the comments re-injure them. One such site is marriagemissions.com - they have great marriage articles, and even great ones on abuse. But comments from certain males (most certainly abusers themselves) tend to de-rail and confuse uninformed women. Go on it one day and see if you can counter the lies with some statistics and research data, so women will know that some of the guys there are frauds.

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  19. Dear Anonymous,
    I am glad you found my site! You are right. It is very frustrating that so many in church refuse to recognize the seriousness of domestic abuse. Some pastors refuse to allow physically beaten wives to leave their husbands, and others claim that people label verbal/emotional abuse as abuse simply because they are looking for an excuse to divorce. They are so terribly wrong. Verbal/emotional abuse is life-threatening when it is being perpetrated by a person who thinks he has the right to have things his way. It is criminal that they push women to forgive and reconcile even though the women are not safe. Secular Society is way ahead of us on holding abusers accountable for sin. I will certainly visit the marriagemission.com site.

    I, too, have been concerned about comments that reinjure women, and as a result do not publish them unless I also have a rebutal. (Occasionally I am interupted and end up waiting a few days to publish my statement, but that is rare.) When I recognize the belief system of an abuser, I usually do not publish their statements at all.

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  20. Waneta, thanks for that quick reply. Actually the site it marriagemissions.com, not marriagemission.com.

    I am quite riled today because I finally told my husband, in front of a pastor, that it was truly over. He did such a good job of appearing a perfect person, even sounding very remorseful, with tears, etc. And he said he wanted more sitdown contact to discuss the kids because even government booklets suggested that good parenting included scheduled contact to discuss such matters. I said it wasn't the case for power and control situations, but he said that these booklets said you could use a mediator, or a trusted counselor, etc. The pastor (who supported our separation but doesn't know my story very well because I didn't want him talking to any that I had spoken to) then said that sometimes email communication wasn't effective because you could misread stuff. And to think that this same pastor had previously told me not to have ANY contact with him, but obviously has been hoodwinked by my husband since counseling him for a few weeks. And this pastor then asked if he had anything to say to me or to ask me, in spite of the fact that I had already warned him that I would just make my statement and leave. of course my ex asked for permission to read something and I asked "What for?" because I wasn't comfortable listening to his garbage, but the pastor then said I should listen because I was given the chance to say something hard for him to swallow. So I gave in and it was about repentance, how he had learned a lot about anger, how if I ever let him back, it would be a different marriage, etc. It sounded all so good except I have heard sorry's and seen tears before! In the end, I just had to excuse myself and must have ended appearing very cold.

    And I didn't even bother telling the pastor that official mediators have already said they would refuse to do any mediation for us, and that I shouldn't even be allowing the kids to see him.

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  21. Anonymous,

    That poor me act, the I'm so sorry act does fool people alot. Pastors especially, I am sorry to say. I find it so odd: they are bent on believing the abusive husband, but the wife's statements must be proven. I, too, got frustrated that when I FINALLY figured out what was going on and went to a counselor for help, the counselor wanted to see it for him/her self before believing me. So rather than offer protection, she/he sent me back to the wolf to be eaten.

    I finally got to the point where I didn't need the counselor's affirmation, I stood firm even if I looked like an idiot or an itch bay. (hopefully you know your pig-latin. Put B in front of itch.)

    What you've shared is one of my beefs, too. Some pastors are helpful to a degree, then they switch and urge joint counseling, reconciliation, or forgiveness even though the issue is safety. Churches and pastors are letting abused women down again and again.

    could you tell me which thread is troublesome on the marriagemissions site? The 1st thread I tried looked pretty ok except for one comment which everyone else ignored.

    Also, have you found my website? You can email me on my "contact us" page, and be more private if you prefer.

    I hope you can stand firm concerning your children, and that the court will not force them to be with him. Any records of abuse--especially to the children--would be helpful.

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